19:07 Wed 12 Mar 2008			 Recipient:613ROb11 
					REF:ACMYCCD1 
					Y/R:Mtg 16:30 2008/03/12
TO:	VHR MAY 		cc 	Local MPs
	General Manager 		Mosman Councillors
	MOSMAN MUNICIPAL COUNCIL 	KSAS-Au Parents 

		DRAFT RECORD WED 12 MAR 2008

Dear General Manager

Thank you for your time to complete the proposed full agenda and 
discuss the legal aspects of the Council's Duty of Care for Sports 
Volunteers.

This is a draft record of the discussion and proposed Action items:

DATE:	Wed 12 Mar 2008	 TIME: Planned 	16:30 - 16:45 - 15 min
				Actual	16:45 - 17:30 - 45 min

ATTENDEES:	Council		Viv MAY			VHM
				John CARMICHAEL		JDC

		KSAS-2088	Peter AXTENS LLB	PMA
				Stephen GOULD		SGG
AGENDA									MINS

A	Review Council Meeting Tue 04 Mar 2008				10 

B	Cr MENZIES Motion "Duty of Care-Playgrounds" 	 		10

C	A standard Name & Address format for Council's Forms.		15

D	Legal Advice on Council's Duty of Care for Sports Volunteers	10

A	REVIEW COUNCIL MEETING TUE 04 MAR 2008 

SGG	General Manager (GM) what should we do to be able to ask Questions
	at a Council meeting or receive a response to written questions ?

VHM	I will discuss it with the Mayor

SGG	We think the issue is deeper than that because none of the 
	Councillors have adhered to the NSW Code of Meeting Practice.

PMA	We believe, having reviewed your report 05 Feb 2008, the Problem 
	is that the NSW Department of Local Government [DLG]: 

	1 	Identified 27 mths ago (2005) that Councillors had not 
		received a workshop on the Role and Function of a Councillor

	2 	Did not ensure that a Workshop was arranged

	3 	Did not follow up with the Council to arrange a workshop 

PROPOSED ACTION ITEMS - A

	ACTION					WHO		 WHEN

1	Contact DLG Minister			SGG	by T 18-Mar-08 

2	Discuss questions issue with Mayor	VHM	by T 18-Mar-08

3	Councillor Training			VHM		TBC	

B	CR MENZIES MOTION "DUTY OF CARE-PLAYGROUNDS" 

VHM	The Matter NM/5 was not reached on T 2008/03/04 hence it will 
	be included in the Council meeting T 2008/013/18.  

	However the Development Applications {DA} are heard first

	I will recommend to the Councillors that you should be allowed 
	to address the Council on the issue but you cannot change or 
	extend a Notice of Motion.

	Only a Councillor can lodge or change a Notice of Motion 

SGG	Thank you General Manager.  However one of the questions submitted 
	to Council last week by Peter AXTENS LLB requested the Council to 
	explain why

	1 	if parents complain the Council DOES have a "Duty-of-Care 
		to Children in Playgrounds" to erect gates and fences

	2 	yet Council DOES NOT have a "Duty-of-Care to the Children's 
		Parents and Ratepayers" to support the NSW Child Protection
		Legislation to ensure that the CRC on Sports Volunteers are 
		completed by the Junior Sports Clubs

PROPOSED ACTION ITEMS - B

	ACTION					WHO		 WHEN

1	Attend Council Mtg			SGG	   T 18-Mar-08 

2	Recommend SGG address Council		VHM	   T 18-Mar-08

3	Explain Council Child DoC Policy	VHM	by T 25-Mar-08	

C	STANDARD NAME & ADDRESS FORMAT FOR COUNCIL'S FORMS.

VHM	Is this a new issue ?

SGG	No General Manager.  This has been an objective of the members of 
	the Open Interchange Consortium [OIC] that are members of the Kids 
	Safe-at-Sport Network [KSAS-Au].

	These members have developed Internet Applications based on the 
	Complex Address of Australian Name and Address Standard [AS4590]
	agreed by an International Panel of IT Consultants in Dec 2006.
	
BACKGROUND

In 1999 OIC was commissioned by Sun, Optus and CSC Australia to develop 
an XML based Electronic Tender Information Management [TIMS] for members
to review all Government tenders twice a week.

We discovered that the Australian eBusiness Standard AS4590 had two very
different address formats in the same Standard !

This is an important issue for Government tenders as many require 
consortium response and regular Stakeholder electronic reports eg a Number
of Council Consortium tenders 32 Councils in Victoria and the recent
SHOROC announcement of a Uniform Tendering System

In 2000 the OIC joined ebXML Australia to remediate this problem.

Other members of ebXML Australia included Standards Australia, Telstra, 
Optus and the BT Financial Group

In 2001 the Federal Department of Employment, Workplace Relations and Small 
Business [DEWRSB] joined the OIC because TIMS had been developed as an XML
Application.

In Feb 2001 DEWRSB commissioned OIC members to conduct a survey of 273 NSW 
Local Government Agencies on "conducting a survey which addresses the 
relevance of XML in the adoption of On-Line Service Delivery by Local 
Government Agencies in NSW"

In Sep 2001 the OIC XML Tender Schema was submitted to John GRANT Chief 
General Manager Government Online, The National Office for the Information
Economy [NOIE] at an OIC Seminar.

In Feb 2002 the Chair of ebXML Australia (Keith FINKELDE BT Financial Group, 
Director of SuperEC (Electronic Superannuation), Director of the Investment
and Financial Services Association [IFSA] and the Chair of Securities 
Institute of Australia [SIA] IT 27 Personal and Corporate Data) confirmed 
that AS4590 had two Address formats in the same Standard - Minutes 05 Feb 2002

The NSW Records Keeping Authority does not define and format for the Address 
details.

However they do provide information both in "html" and "pdf" format so 
that Council can evaluate the different in speed and ease of use

Similarly the NSW Government has not adopted the Information Technology 
Infrastructure Library [ITIL] for IT Service Management

However the Victorian Government did implement the UK ITIL Standard in 
the State Revenue Office - Victoria in 2005

In 2006 a 32 Victorian Government Council Consortium commissioned two 
projects with Sinclair Knight Merz [SKM] as the Project Manager 

1 	Aug 2006 Easybiz Web services Hub for Council On-line forms

2	Sep 2006 Integration with Council systems using AS4590

In Oct 2006 we wrote to SKM to point out the problems with AS4590 and 
invite them to join a remediation eCommittee

Here is the SKM Response

1. 	The EasyBiz project will use whatever standards produce the best
	result for our stakeholders.

2. 	Your email will be considered by SKM Consultants.

3. 	We have no interest in participating in your proposed eCommittee.

Unfortunately "the Stakeholders" referred to by the Project Manager 
are not the Councils or Ratepayers but IBM, Microsoft and others who 
received an ITOL grant to develop the Bizdex Hub for AWB.

Hence once the accepted AS4590 Standard had been agreed the "Junior 
Sports Information System [JSIS]" and the "Kids Safe-at-Sport Network 
[KSAS-Au]" were enhanced to use the complex address version of the 
Australian Standard AS4590.

CURRENT MOSMAN FORMS APPLICATION PROCESS

SGG	At the moment the Parents/Ratepayers 

	1	download one of 66 forms

	2	print it out locally

	3	complete the form

	4	Fax/Post it back with payment if required

	5	The Council then re-types the information into the
		Council System

	This is additional unnecessary costs at both ends with
	a high risk of input error at the Council end.

	If on-line, once a profile has been set up for each household
	including payment with credit card details it does not have 
	to be re-entered each time an application is lodged on-line
	
VHM	(to JDC) Does that how it work ?

JDC	no a faxed image is attached to the household record

[JDC is the Director of Planning & Environment and does not have 
responsibility for IT Systems.  

The Director of Corporate Systems is responsible for

1	Governance 
2	Financial Services
3	Information Technology Services
4	Business Systems Services including Document Management
5	Risk Management

Perhaps it may have been more appropriate for Max GLYDE to attend
the meeting]

PROPOSED ACTION ITEMS - C

	ACTION					WHO		 WHEN

1	Council IT department review Forms	VRH	by 31-Mar-08 

2	SGG available to discuss		SGG	 by 31-Mar-08

3	Confirm Council Standard Address format	VHM	by 15 Apr-08

D	LEGAL ADVICE ON COUNCIL'S DUTY OF CARE FOR SPORTS VOLUNTEERS

VHM	We require you to submit Formal Legal Advice before we consider 
	your response to the letter from Pike, Pike and Fenwick

PMA	I am a qualified Lawyer who provided that advice.  

	My advice is to take the matter to Court.  

	Unfortunately because of poor health I did not renew my 
	Solicitor's Practicing Certificate on 01 Jul 2007

SGG	I will ask 3 lawyers to provide a quotation for Formal Legal Advice

PROPOSED ACTION ITEMS - D

	ACTION					WHO		 WHEN

1	Request costs for legal advice		SGG	by 31-Mar-08 

2	Report back to Council			SGG	 by 31-Mar-08

3	Council Mtg 				Cnl	01-Apr-2008

22:57 W 2008/03/12	Syd	2089