20:30 Fri 14 Dec 2007				REF: KSAMMCD5

DATE:	Fri 14 Dec 2007		TIME:	PLAN    17:30-18:30
					ACTUAL 	17:30-19:00 
					extension for review SHOROC Kimbriki Company

VENUE:	Mosman RSC		ATTENDEES:
	MOSMAN	2088			Bill HOSKINS [WRH] 	
					Michael CLEAR [MJC]
					Peter AXTENS [PMA]
AGENDA					Stephen GOULD [SGG]
A	Confirm draft record 
B	New Floodlights application for Balmoral Oval
C	Response to Questions Mosman Council Meeting 11 Dec 2007
D	Presentation to Councils
E	Review Plan 2008 Work Group Reports
F	Review SHOROC Kimbriki Company plan
G	Other Councils & CDSE Applications
H	OIC IE Event Credit System
I	Next Steps - Agenda Meet 6 17:30 Fri 21 Dec 2007

A	CONFIRM DRAFT RECORD - No changes

KSAS-2088 has established a Carbon-Offsets project team to understand the issues 
involved with Carbon offsets for Playing Field Floodlights and Parents' travel 
offsets to training & games.

All	Meeting Agreed important reason and to include the OIC Management
	Volunteer Credit Accounting as part of the Committee Management 
	Process

All	Proposed extension scope agreed - thanks to Adelle, Colin and Tim
	for new web-site for Sustainability issues
	http://www.ksas-au.net/SAN 

B	QUESTIONS FOR MOSMAN COUNCIL MEETING TUE 11 DEC 2007

SGG	I attended the Council meeting on Tue 11 Dec 2007.

	There was a full turn-out of Councillors and about 40 people there 
	for Development Applications for eight (8) Development Applications.

	There were 13 items listed in the Agenda (196 pages) including EP/275 
	"Erection of two (2) twenty five meter poles, each accommodating four 
	(4) two thousand (2,000) watt light luminaries at Balmoral Oval"

	My real concern for Councils is that even though the NSW Government
	legislated for Carbon Rights in 1998 and the NSW Greenhouse Gas 
	Reduction Scheme mandatory scheme commenced on 01 Jan 2003 there
	is no mention in this document of

	1	Financial figures for Grant and Contributions

	2	The Carbon-Offsets required for these lights

	3	An estimate cost of the electricity in the application

	4	a way of offsetting the electricity cost rather than an 
		increase of rate-payers expenses

	The Council documentation listed every other conceivable check
	and report except accurate on-going operational costs.

	It does not auger well for the planned Kimbriki Business due
	to start on 01 Jan 2008 when the main shareholder with 51%
	of the shares is Warringah Council which has an Administrator
	rather than an elected Council.

	If the Councillors do not have the time to look after their
	own Council affairs how are they going to have the time to
	review the complex operations of the proposed Kimbriki Company

	As we have discussed in the past, in 10 years time Generation X 
	and Generation Y may be more than upset at the Councillors who
	"propelled them and their families into "The Abyss of Pepetual Debt"

	Here is the Management Summary on EP/275
	
EP/275

"Erection of two (2) twenty five meter poles, each accommodating four 
(4) two thousand (2,000) watt light luminaries at Balmoral Oval"
	
The applicant and owner of the site is Mosman Municipal Council.

A	Costs and payment
B	Approval documentation 
C	Approved Plans
D	Objections by affected residents - 20
E	Letters of Support - 47 and petition 170 names

A	COSTS AND PAYMENT

The estimated value of the works is $ 75,350

"In relation to costs, it is understood	that a grant has been
offered by the Department of Sport and Recreation and a contribution
has also been proposed by the Mosman Junior Rugby Club" P16/25

However there were no figures on the Grant or the Contribution proposed.

B	APPROVAL DOCUMENTATION

The Approval report which was prepared by Mooki Consulting Pty Ltd
(Applicant) was 25 pages included reference to 3 Assessment Reports.

These assessment reports were 

1	09 Aug 2005 	Assess quality light in Oval	
			Shelmerdines Consulting Engineers
			Australian Standard AS2560 for night time training

2	24 Oct 2005	Options for upgrading lighting
			Shelmerdines Consulting Engineers				

3	 Nov 2007	Assessment Obtrusive Impact on local residents
			Gordon Watson & Associates
			Australian Standard AS4282 outdoor lighting standards

There was reference to 7 planning policies and control documents:


a	State Environmental Planning Policy No 19 - Bushland in Urban Areas
b	State Environmental Planning Policy No 55 - Remediation of Land
c	Sydney Regional Environmental Plan [SREP] (Sydney Harbour Catchment) 2005
d	Mosman Local Environmental Plan 1998
e	Mosman Draft Local Environmental Plan 2007
f	Notifications Development Control Plan 
g	Balmoral Reserves Plan of Management [POM]
h	Environmental Planning and Assessment Regulation 2000

a	State Environmental Planning Policy No 19 - Bushland in Urban Areas

	This required a report by a qualified Arborist if tree roots
	encountered digging the trench for cables

b	State Environmental Planning Policy No 55 - Remediation of Land

This required a report by an Environmental Consultant on a sample of 
excavated soil from the proposed lighting cable trench area
 
c	Sydney Regional Environmental Plan [SREP] (Sydney Harbour Catchment) 2005

	This required the proposal to be assessed with regard to

	1	Biodiversity, ecology and environment protection
	2	Public access to, and use of, foreshores and waterways
	3	Maintenance of a working harbour
	4	Interrelationship of waterways and foreshores
	5	Maintenance, protection and enhancement of views
	6	Boat storage facilities

d	Mosman Local Environmental Plan 1998

	This required the proposal to be assessed with regard to
	1	Zoning and Permissibility
	2	Special considerations for developments of open space zones
	3	Foreshore Scenic Protection Area
	4	Contaminated Sites
	5	Natural Watercourses
	6	Excavation
	7	Acid Sulfate Soils
	8	Wetlands
	9	Heritage
		
e	Mosman Draft Local Environmental Plan 2007

	There was no reference to the Mosman LEP - however this section
	may be the most appropriate place for an estimate of the
	Annual Carbon-Offset costs

f	Notifications Development Control Plan 

	This required the proposal to be assessed with regard to

	1	Ecological Assessment
	2	Landscape Assessment
	3	Design Guidelines for Land Based Developments
		a	Foreshore Access
		b	Siting of Buildings and Structures
		c	Built Form
				
g	Balmoral Reserves Plan of Management [POM]

	The proposal is consistent with the new infrastructure
	envisaged under the POM

h	Environmental Planning and Assessment Regulation 2000	

	Applicable regulation considerations include compliance with

	1	Building Code of Australia
	2	Principal Certifying Authority [PCA] appointment
	3	Notice of Commencement of Work
	4	Sign on work sites
	5	critical stage inspections
	6	records of inspection appropriate consent conditions

C	APPROVED PLANS

	PLAN				DATE		CONSULTANT		

1	Electrical Services		Jan 2006	Shelmerdines Consulting Engineers
2	Lighting Calculation Index	Jan 2006	Shelmerdines Consulting Engineers
3	FPM25F				21 Jun 1999	Ingal IPS
4	Survey Ref No 15169		19 May 1995	KJ Morrow & RW Young Pty Ltd
5	Structural Engineers Report	13 Feb 2006	GW Engineers
6	Contamination Report		09 Feb 2004	New Environment
7	Obtrusive Lighting Assessment	Non 2007	Gordon Watson & Associates

D	MATTERS RAISED IN PUBLIC SUBMISSIONS
		
	1	Height of Poles
	2	View Loss
	3	Light Glare
	4	Direction of Lighting
	5	Overuse Balmoral Oval
	6	Associated cost and need for additional lighting
	7	Lighting hours of use
	8	Increase use of existing skate park

E	LETTERS OF SUPPORT - 47 AND PETITION 170 NAMES

	1	Mosman Junior Rugby Club
	2	Mosman Rugby Club
	3	Mosman Swans Junior AFL Club
	4	The Hon Tony ABBOTT MHR
	5	Jillian SKINNER MP
	6	Education Co-ordinator Australian Rugby Union
	7	16 Resident letters
	8	Mosman Junior Rugby Club Petition with 170 names

C	RESPONSE FROM MAYOR TO QUESTIONS COUNCIL MEETING TUE 11 DEC 2007

MJC	On Mon 10 Dec we received a letter from the General Manager stating:

	"The Correspondence from the Local Government Association [NSWLGA] dated 
	06 Nov 2007 is clear.

	Statutory responsibility for matters associated with volunteers working with
	Children rests with the State.

	As indicated in the letter, if you wish to make representation to have the
	legislation altered or if you are aware of persons who have not undergone
	the relevant child protection checks you should contact the Commission for
	Children and Young People".

PMA	The General Manager is wrong.  The letter from NSWLGA states that 

	1	"If Council becomes aware that certain hirers have not undergone
		the relevant Child Protection checks Council can report those 
		hirers to the Commission for Children and Young People"

	2	The Courts have already ruled that Councils cannot abrogate 
		their Duty of Care Responsibilities as they receive income 
		from hiring out the Playing Fields

	3	"If you require further information on this issue, it would be 
		prudent	for the Council to contact the Commission for Children 
		and Young People" 

	I suggest we write to the General Manager a letter that he can send to 
	the NSW Local Government Association and the Commission for Children
	and Young People for clarification on the Duty of Care Liability

SGG	On Tue 11 Dec I emailed the questions to the Council from Claire, Mike 
	and myself.

	When I tied to ask the questions the Mayor said "we have received your
	questions by email and we have already responded to these same questions 
	before"

	I said "Madam Mayor they were emailed to you to show you that there were
	3 different questions as you have said in the past that I try to ask the
	same questions".

	The questions refer to

	1	Council's Duty of Care Liability if hirers do not carry out the
		Child Protection checks and there is a major incident

	2	A standard web page to reduce Junior Clubs administration costs

	3	Council's schedule for collecting e-waste on the Sustainability
		issue"

	The Mayor and General Manager stood up and walked out.

	Cr REID said "Mr GOULD we are all sick and tired of receiving your letters"
	
	I said "Cr REID according to the Local Government Act 1993 Councillors are
	supposed to listen to concerns from the Community.  

	Not one Councillor or Council official attended one of the 4 seminars 
	organised to outline those parents concerns

	Those parents that DID ATTEND the Seminars, identified other concerns.

	These 6 main concerns were then documented to the Mayor on 05 Aug 2007.

	The Council then addressed one of those concerns and changed it's policy 
	on Hiring out Sporting Fields in Sep 2007.

	But the Council has not addressed the 5 other concerns including the 
	one identified in the Sun Herald on 05 Sep 2007 "Levies leave our
	youngsters without a sporting chance".

	I propose we write to the Minister with copies of Council letters
	and ask for a meeting to discuss Councils' Duty of Care responsibilities
	
D	PRESENTATION TO COUNCILS

SGG	A web-presentation for Councils to understand the Child Protection concerns 
	and how the "Junior Sports Information Service [JSIS]" and "Kids Safe-at-Sport 
	[KSAS-Au]" have been developed to address the concerns.

	This can be reviewed on SHOROC Councils

E	REVIEW PLAN 2008 WORK GROUP REPORTS

a	Link exercise equipment to generators

Chair		MJC			Notary	WRH
Obj: 	To Research if bicycles linked to Generators before
NxS:	Report Meet 2 M 2007/12/03

MJC	1	Confirmed worked successfully many times before.

	2	Bank of 6, 12 and 24 cycles for pilot to gauge electricity

	3	Suggest involve local Police/Youth Clubs so equipment secure

b	Carbon Offset Electricity RECs records

Chair		PMA			Notary	SGG
Obj: 	To record how RECS will be records & updated
NxS:	Report Meet 2 M 2007/12/03

PMA	1	Proposed Mosman RECs registry could be on Mosman RSC web-site
		so that a Mosman RSC Committee can verify the Records are 
		accurate

	2	If REC sites at schools, council, gyms and police clubs then 
		there would be secure sites

	3	Log on facility based on home property number

c	"Mosman Money" as part of Local Information Economy
  
Chair		SGG			Notary	MJC
Obj: 	To record how Volunteer Credits can be accrued
NxS:	Report Meet 4 M 2007/12/10

SGG	1	Discussed with Mosman RSC Director

	2	Detail to be included in CDSE submission

d	Organise 12 events at Mosman RSC

Chair		WRH	(A)		Notary	PMA
Obj: To propose dates 12 events
NxS:	Report Meet 4 M 2007/12/10

D	PROPOSED DATES FOR SEMINARS

Proposed Dates:	Jan	Thu 24 Jan 2008		19:00 - 20:00
		Feb	Thu 21 Feb 2008		19:00 - 20:00
		Mar	Thu 20 Mar 2008 	19:00 - 20:00
		Apr	Thu 24 Apr 2008 	19:00 - 20:00
		May	Thu 22 May 2008 	19:00 - 20:00
		Jun	Thu 19 Jun 2008 	19:00 - 20:00
		Jul	Thu 24 Jul 2008 	19:00 - 20:00
		Aug	Thu 21 Aug 2008 	19:00 - 20:00
		Sep	Thu 25 Sep 2008 	19:00 - 20:00
		Oct	Thu 23 Oct 2008 	19:00 - 20:00
		Nov	Thu 20 Nov 2008 	19:00 - 20:00
		Dec	Thu 18 Dec 2008 	19:00 - 20:00

	Dates appear to be OK  - email Mosman RSC to see if rooms 
	are available

F	SHOROC KIMBRIKI COMPANY PLAN

The latest minutes of the proposed SHOROC Kimbriki Company Plan have
been placed on the web-site for review

An email had been distributed requesting feedback.

The meeting identified these concerns:

1	The Warringah Administrator has 51.00% of the shares 
2	How has the share percentages been calculated
3	Why Mosman Waste percentage so small
4	The Administration costs can be very high
5	Minute Distribution to 28 people
6	How can broke Councils afford $ 2 Million
7	How many consultant reports required for Kimbriki Business Plans
8	How reliable Fluorescent Globes and Mercury statement
9	How large is the Leachate Fund	
10	Why has 1992 Deed of Agreement not been published
11	Outsourcing proved disasterous in the US
12	Deepening Crisis in Administrative Ethics

1	The Shareholding 51% Warringah Council ensures that other Councils
	will not be able out-vote Warringah Council on any issues

2	The Shareholding in relation to Tonnages and Populations of the 
	4 Councils does not compute:

	COUNCIL		POPULATION %	TONNAGE		%	SHAREHOLDING

	Manly		 38,868	14.73	$ 130,570	15.27	10.71
	Mosman		 28,414	10.77	$  31,125	 3.64	 3.84
	Pittwater	 56,829	21.54	$ 316,635	37.03	34.45
	Warringah	139,626	52.94	$ 376,746	44.06	51.00

		TOTAL	263,737		$ 855,076

	This is "the estimated surplus earned to 30 Jun 2007"

3	We are informed that Mosman has "the highest carbon footprint"
	but our waste appears to be very small compared with the other 
	Councils  

	Does Mosman use another tip ?

4	The minutes are 12 pages but much of the information is repeated
	a number of times including the Tonnage breakdown which is
	repeated 4 times.

	There has to be a more disciplined way of producing minutes

5	There are 28 people on the Distribution list which means the
	administration costs and paper wastage are going to be considerable.

	Perhaps the efficient Committee Information distribution process 
	like the OIC Electronic Committee Information Management System 
	[ECIM] should be used.

6	With all the Councils crying poor and not able to meet their
	current infrastructure costs ref  Viv MAY Mosman Daily 01 Nov 2007
	"Lack of Funds puts Council on deathrow" how are Councils
	going to afford $ 2,000,000 for Capital Calls over the next 2 years ?

7	We have seen how many Consultant reports are required to just set up two
	floodlights at Balmoral Oval ref Mosman Council 11 Dec 2007 EP/275.

	How many Consultant reports will be required for the multitude
	of business opportunities discussed in the Kimbriki Minutes including

	1	the archaeological report
	2	the flora and fauna report for excavation works
	3	Water Harvesting 
	4	High Level Drain etc

8	8.1	FLUORESCENT LIGHT GLOBES - Disposing of the bulbs

	On 11 Oct 2007 Cr Jim REID asked a question about the problems of 
	disposing of the new energy-efficient light globes due to Mercury
	and Phosphorus content

	The question was a written question to Mosman Sustainability 
	Advisory Group [MSAG] at the meeting on 11 Oct 2007.

	The question was not answered at the meeting by the Mosman Panel 
	of Experts.
 
	On 17 Aug 2007 the minutes of the SHOROC Joint Services Committee 
	record the statement 

	"The Kimbriki Manager (is that Aaron HUDSON Manager Kimbriki (CEO
	Designate)or Peter STEPHENSON Kimbriki Operations Manager ?) has 
	informed the Committee that "testing for mercury is carried out 
	on the leachate and shows no mercury content. Kimbriki will continue 
	to monitor this.

	The Committee was advised that the globes can be disposed of at the 
	periodic household chemical clean outs."

	What happens if "The Kimbriki Manager (who ever he is)" is wrong ?

9	How large is the "Leachate Fund" ?

	Here is a reference to a Landfill Leachate fund disaster in the US
	
	"Mr. Lim acknowledged the predicament. Envirosafe will need millions
	of dollars to close down the landfill and suck contaminated leachate
	out of all of its cells, possibly for decades. 

	It needs to install at least two more landfill caps, then maintain 
	those and all others so that they don't degrade and allow rainwater 
	back into the pits."

	The Rothschilds had a monopoly on Mercury for over 100 years.  It was 
	known that Mercury made hat makers (the stiffening in bowler hats ) mad 
	- hence as mad as a Hatter.

	Mercury was also used in teeth filings hence this may be the reason 
	why there are so many mental health problems now in old people.  

10	Why has the Deed Agreement signed in 1992 not been made Public
	Knowledge ?

11	Outsourcing proved a disaster in the US

In 1992 Ted GAEBLER published a book called "Re-inventing Government"

In 1993 Andersen Consulting sponsored Ted GAEBLER to visit all the Australian
State Capitals to be part of a seminar called "Inventing the Australian
Model of Government"

Here is the agenda for the NSW Jun 1993 Meeting where the seminar
also included presentations on

1	Welcome Address
	David HUNTER	Managing Partner Asia Pacific Government Services
	
2	Re-inventing Government
	Ted GAEGLER

3	Virtual Government 
	Gary STURGESS	Chief of Staff for the NSW Greiner Government

4	Competitiveness in Budget Departments
	Percy ALLAN		Chairman NSW Treasury

In 1996 Orange County where Ted GAEBLER was the City Manager went
into bankruptcy owing US$ 60 Million dollars

In 2006 Professer Percy ALLAN also happened to produce a report  
that indicates most of the NSW Councils "will not be sustainable 
after 2015".

In Nov 2007 The President of the NSW Local Government Association
wrote an article that the Councils are "like Frogs boiling
in hot water" as the State Government increased Council
administration costs and reduced funds.

How can the Public have faith in an outsourcing Company like
this when the Councillors cannot even run their own Councils
properly ?

12	Deepening Crisis in Administrative Ethics

There have been many books published in recent years on the problems
of accountability in Public Administration

An example is: Reinventing Accountability: Making Democracy Work For the Poor 
by Anne Marie Marie Goetz, Rob Jenkins

"A deepening crisis in accountability in developing democracies has 
triggered much debate on accountability and the mechanisms needed for
overcoming deficiencies of democracy. 

This book analyzes a wide variety of contemporary efforts to reform 
accountability systems in developing countries. 

It makes an original contribution to the debate by dealing with a 
variety of novel approaches to accountability and it combines these 
approaches in both a systematic and analytic fashion. 

The book also includes case study material on successful accountability 
initiatives"

This list may be extended when people have reviewed the Kimbriki minutes

G	OTHER COUNCILS & CDSE GRANT APPLICATION

a	KSAS-2088 Applications for a Community Development and Support 
	Expenditure Grant [CDSE] to initially fund the awareness campaign 
	in 2008.

	The meeting confirmed 2 separate CDSE Applications
	
	1 	Mosman RSC - Technical Feasibility Study
	2 	Mosman Council - Community Awareness Program

b	Another SHOROC council has requested a paper and invited KSAS-Au
	to give a presentation to the Council

c	Another Sydney Council has invited KSAS-Au to make a submission
	for CDSE and Community funds in 2008

H	OIC IE EVENT CREDITS SYSTEM - MEET 4

STAGE: PLANNING MEETING 4

Link to Credits Codes

	MAT	RPT	TET	ART	EAT	FET	MDT	ERT	TOTAL
WRH		10	10	10	10	10	10	10	 70
MJC		10	10	10	20	10	10	10	 70
PMA		10	10	10	20	10	10	10	 70
SGG	40	20	10	10	20	10	40		150

I	NEXT STEPS

DATE:	Fri 21 Dec 2007		TIME:	17:30 - 18:30

VENUE:	Mosman RSC

	AGENDA							WHO
A	Review response Council Meeting				WRH/CMC/PMA/SGG
B	Confirm details next Council presentation		All
C	Review CDSE Applications 				All

Following meeting

DATE:	Fri 28 Dec 2007		TIME:	17:30 - 18:30

VENUE:	Mosman RSC